Time Limit handling at Class Championship Regattas

[mckeever]

At S20 Class Championship Regatta in Oklahoma City last month the wind died during the second race. Eleven boats succeeded in finishing within the time limit. The other eight boats were scored DNF per the SIs and entries+1 per the RRS (1 boat that entered did not show).

This was all done properly according to the SIs and RRS. The wind fell after the first boat rounded the previous mark. In this case there was little the RC could do since the SIs left them no discretion in the matter.

I'd like to suggest that the "Guidelines for Conducting the S20 Class Championship Regatta" in the back of the S20CA Yearbook might offer alternatives to Entries+1

Some possibilities:

1. Many regattas in Colorado score DNF as Finishers+1.

2. Moving finish line: once the TL expires an RC boat moves down the course recording the current position of each boat not yet finished, being relatively generous with "ties". As this could only improve a boat's score, there should be little argument.

3. I'm sure there are more ideas out there.

[Vernon Green]

Mike,
I don't think moving the finish line would be a good idea overall. Just to use my results that race as an example, if the finish line had been moved even 200 yards closer to the previous mark I would have been about 4 boats further back. We are a very good light air team and caught about 6 boats on the last leg of that particular race.


Now as for how the scoring is done, I do think that using the idea of Finishers + 1 would be a better idea. Being on the board this year I will make sure to bring it up during out first board meeting.

Thanks again for coming to nationals Mike!

[mckeever]

My idea (#2) is to attempt to approximate the order that the time limited boats are in and give them the points for those positions. Yes, this ignores whatever gains (or losses) they might have made if the race continued, but it's better than entries+1.

[Vernon Green]

I think approximating the finish order is fine for club events and smaller regattas but at a nationals level event I am not sure if that is a good idea. But the whole idea does need to be discussed to figure out the best way to score these type of events.

It will be something I bring up to the board when I get the chance to discuss it.

[Geoffpz1]

IMHO we should keep this consistent with other major class rules that are out there whatever they might be, this is nationals after all and we don't want to dumb it down too much. That being said, 21+ pts for something that was not really in your control seems kind of ridiculous, but that's sailboat racing. My last point would be that traveling to a major regatta only to get booted after the first 2 races would majorly suck, and possibly deter future participation.

[Quitcherbitchen]

What about bringing back "throw outs"? We had them at almost all the Nationals until about 2000. I liked them because if you traveled from far away and made a mistake you at least had a second chance. Look at all the scores from this year from that perspective and I think those that did not finish would have left a lot happier.

Quitcherbitchen 66

[Geoffpz1]

Throwout - Good. Never understood why they got rid of it.

[Quitcherbitchen]

Well, good question. There were a lot of Pros in the class back then and I guess the idea was that if they did make a mistake that bettered the chances for everyone who didn't. The problem was that the Pros just asked for "redress" from the race committee and tied up a lot of valuable beer time. I vote to bring Throwouts back.

Quitcherbitchen 66

[s20sailor]

The race should have been abandoned by the race committee when it became obvious that it was not going to be a fair competition. I finished 2nd in the race and agree it was bull that half the fleet was scored TLE.

I have raced the S20 class champipnship regatta since 2004 and dont ever remember seeing a TLE statement in the Sailing instructions prior to OKC. My opinion, any time the wind drops below 3 MPH for more than 3 or 4 minutes a RC should abandon the race. especially if half the fleet got a luck puff that allowed them to seperate a unrecoverable distance. IF a RC is determined to force in some racing on crappy wind days then I agree that a TLE of finsihers plus one would keep the back of the fleet within reach.

[706]

I agree TLE frustrates both the sailors and the RC and especially hurts for the traveling sailors. But TLE should not be inflicted on more than 1 or 2 boats, with the number of boats scored TLE the race should have been abandoned. Looking at old results this has not been an issue before. I only have 1 old SI from Nationals on hand and there is a time limit included. Our Class handbook addresses Champ regattas and requires at least 5 races and no throw outs. There is no discussion of TLE.

I think this needs to be handled by the RC and races abandoned or shortened when conditions appear to make the racing uneven. This is covered in the handbook, but it is always difficult to call when you are on the RC boat trying to get the races in. We should encourage the the Champ RC to make the racing as fair as possible and to invoke abandon races. That is part of part of the reason for 1 race on day 3 -- so there is time to make up races.

I think having no throw outs separates the champs from other events, requires you to suck up your mistakes and try to sail better. It also forces the top boats to continue to sail their best through the last race. It keeps the top boat after day 2 a little uneasy at night, knowing anything can happen and the middle of the pack working hard to catch that one boat.

This will be part of the board discussion in the upcoming meetings.

Adam

[bwsails]

Interesting quick look at the results with a throw out. Top four would not have changed, Gratitude would have tied with thinkertoy for 4th and lost the t.b. making 926 5th. McNamara aka recks easly would have moved from ninth to 6th. A throw out would eliminate the big mistake on the part of the skipper and or on the part of the RC.
My worst score was during race one, my mental attitude was they will stop this soon. My mistake, should have focused on sailing but with a 90degree shift and a hole big enough to park Texas, we got killed. Was it fair sailing?? I did not think so at the time. I would be for reestablishing a throw out if seven were sailed. It would not have changed our finishing position.

[Quitcherbitchen]

My sentiments exactly. Everyone would have felt better about the race knowing that their biggest mistake was wished away to the cornfields. The top people would still be top and the middle pack, tail end charlies would have felt better. I have witnessed many times where the Pro racers big time OCS and ask the race committee (because the know how) for redress and get it--is that fair! No. The race committee even gets a bye with a throw out. Look at Oklahoma. Committee boat is not easy. Throw outs would in my opinion make everyone happier, especially those who traveled 2,000 miles. Who cares what other classes do. The Nationals should be fun.

Quitcherbitchen 66

[Vernon Green]

Sounds like there is alot of support for a throw out to be included at nationals.